10/27 Member Meeting Notes
1. ELDER CANDIDATE ANNOUNCEMENTS
Brian announced that the elders have invited Matt Low and Eric Davis into the elder candidacy process. After participating in Relational Elders Training this year, they have both indicated a sense of calling to the office and Brian and I believe that this is the Lord's leading.
At this point we are working with them both as Gospel Community leaders, participants in elders meeting discussions, and on a list of "to-do" reading and writing assignments to continue to assess their character, calling, capability, capacity, and chemistry for service as an elder.
Each new candidate (along with Jake Nelson who has been a candidate for about a year) are on their own journey through this somewhat custom tailored process, but at some point, should they continue, we will bring them before the membership for a vote.
It's important for all of us to be aware of this as we "carefully observe the outcome of their lives" (Heb. 13:7) in anticipation of the day when we are asked if we believe that they are qualified for this office and that we are willing, as members of the church, to submit to their leadership.
2. 2025 GIVING FUNDS AND TEAMS
Jake shared that we will be developing several giving teams to help steward our financial resources in the areas of Education, Mission, and Benevolence beginning in 2025. These teams will be led by Finance Deacon Laura Lambas and will each have 2 other positions per team that need to be filled by members of the congregation. The teams are as follows: Christian Education – Provision for students entering college, seminary, or other educational endeavors. Mission – Resources for bringing the gospel to those outside the church – locally, regionally, and globally. Benevolence – Funding to meet tangible needs in the congregation and throughout the community. The teams will be tasked with developing policy on how to allocate and distribute resources for their respective area of responsibility, and most needs will be handled directly by those teams moving forward.
As Jake discussed in the meeting, this new system was developed in response to a request by my daughter, Charis, about the church funding a matching scholarship from her college. Since this was a conflict of interest for me, we began to get counsel on ways to manage financial requests of similar kinds as the church grows.
These three giving teams will be our next step in deepening the transparency and hopefully the effectiveness of our stewardship of ministry funds.
If you have a passion for any of these three areas of ministry and want to join a team, please reach out to Laura for more information.
3. PROPOSED BYLAW AMENDMENT
I brought forward a proposed amendment to our bylaws for your consideration to be voted on at the January 2025 member meeting. Article 7, Section 2 currently reads:
Members of Revelation Church shall be those who:
- have been saved through personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ;
- have been baptized by immersion;
- agree with the Doctrinal Statement;
- have completed a membership orientation course;
- have reached the age of eighteen (18) years old.
The elders are proposing that it be amended to read:
Members of Revelation Church shall be those who:
- have been saved through personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ;
- have been baptized by water subsequent to their personal confession of faith;
- agree with the Doctrinal Statement;
- have completed a membership orientation course;
- have reached the age of eighteen (18) years old.
The reason for this has to do with item (2), which requires all members to have been baptized by immersion (completely going under water). There have been several instances in the history of our church where men and women who have been baptized as believers, but by a different mode (pouring or sprinkling), were required to be re-baptized in order to become members of our church. The elders are concerned that this requirement is harmful because it essentially declares their prior baptism to be invalid.
The proposed language change would allow us to accept members into the congregation whose baptism was conducted after their personal profession of faith but through a mode other than immersion.
This is a contentious topic amongst Baptist churches and I told you I would link to some resources that you could study to prepare for the vote. The following links will take you to articles and videos sharing several perspectives. Please note that most of these articles/videos are primarily concerned with admitting into membership those that had been baptized as infants. We are not interested in this part of the argument - the "who" of baptism. The only question we are thinking about is the "how" and whether the basic positions represented here can inform a change on our restricting the mode of baptism of professing Christians.
PRO "OPEN MEMBERSHIP"
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/why-i-changed-my-mind-about-baptism/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w181E7OPYR4&ab_channel=TruthUnites
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/a-happy-baptist-happy-to-welcome-others/
ANTI "OPEN MEMBERSHIP"
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/baptism-and-church-membership/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq_ZQRPepRA&ab_channel=DallasTheologicalSeminary
It is our hope that the whole church together would find the mind of Christ for us in this, so please feel free to discuss these issues with Bibles open with the elders, with one another, in your Gospel communities. We are inviting you to take time to listen and discern the way forward on this point and we are looking forward to how God leads us.
4. BELL RINGING WITH THE SALVATION ARMY
We are partnering with The Salvation Army this Christmas season to serve our community through their annual Christmas Kettle Campaign.
Here’s how you can get involved:
- Go to registertoring.com
- Select “I’m Ringing With A Group”
- Select “Find A Group”
- Search for “Revelation Church”
- Find a location & 2 hour timeslot between 11/22 and 12/24 and sign up!
How are Red Kettle Donations Used?
- Youth and family mental health services, bringing accessible help to meet a critical growing need in our community.
- Community partnerships, including St. Vincent DePaul, Love Inc, Post Falls Food Bank, local school districts, and area churches
- Outfitting children with warm winter clothes for families in need through our Clothe a Child: Partnering with Parents program.
- Membership Scholarships, allowing The Center to be accessible to everyone.
- Stocking shelves of local food banks through the Families Feeding Families program.
- Teaching local third graders important water and swim safety through the 3rd Grade Swim program.
- Providing free, healthy snacks to area schools to ensure students always have access to nutritious food throughout the school year.
- Providing structured recess support at Coeur d’Alene, Post Falls, and Lakeland elementary schools through the Mobile Kroc program.
Resources From The 2022 Advent Fast
The following devotionals were prepared to help us learn about fasting in the season of Advent before Christmas in 2022. Each small devotional looks at a different point in church history for wisdom regarding fasting.
Advent Fasting Devotion #1 - The Didache
Advent Fasting Devotion #2 - The Shepherd of Hermas
Advent Fasting Devotion #3 - Basil The Great
Advent Fasting Devotion #4 - Augustine of Hippo
Advent Fasting Devotion #5 - John Calvin
Advent Fasting Devotion #6 - John Wesley
Missed Question From 1.2.22 Q&R
There was a question that was texted in on Sunday that didn’t come in until after Q&R was over that I wanted to briefly respond to:
When grief takes away purpose and all you can hear is the clock ticking, how does God tell us to jump start His worship over putting heart break first? [Does] our hard work equate to fixing our heart's position so when 'life happens' we can still hear and care about seeking?
This is a difficult question to respond to because there are a lot of specifics to this person's situation that I don't know. If this is your question, please make sure that there are fellow Christians in your life that you can trust to help you process your grief. If there aren’t please reach out. Someone from the church church would love to talk with you.
As far as some general thoughts about grief, Psalm 42 is helpful.
The psalmist seems to be feeling two sets of competing emotions: depression and a lack of hope in God (V3, 5-6), as well as fond memories and a yearning for the experience of God’s presence that he had in the past (V1-2,4).
Something terrible has happened and for whatever reason the joyful practice of worship is something that the psalmist can’t either physically or emotionally participate in.
In verse 7 the psalmist begins to describe this sensation of drowning in the deep - but he ascribes all of the waters to God. God hasn’t caused the turmoil (that was enemies V3,10 and the psalmist himself V5,11) but his presence everywhere, both in the day and the night, means that in the midst of the psalmist’s drowning, God is with him.
There are 2 things that the psalmist does in the midst of this grief. First he confesses his situation to God. For the psalmist it looks like the contradictions in his soul might be a lack of trust - a sin of faithlessness. That might not be you. There might not be sin in your situation. But the psalmist still, out loud, confesses his heart to God. Secondly, twice in this psalm, he speaks to himself (V5, 11) to remind himself that regardless of his circumstances he can still trust, still hope and still praise God.
The reality of suffering, whether through our sinful foolishness or by tragedy that befalls us through no fault of our own, is that it is guaranteed to happen. It’s not an unanticipated detour from the purposes of God for our lives, it is part of the purpose for our lives. The grief that you are experiencing is not something that has to take away your purpose and prevent you from worshipping God - but if that’s what’s happening, get real honest with God about what’s going on inside you and begin to ask him to show you ways to worship in the midst of your grief instead of planning on seeking him after you have been delivered from it.
Jesus is faithful. He will never leave you. He is seeking you through the pain, not in spite of it. He deserves your worship in the midst of your grief and your soul needs to worship him in order to get you through it.
I hope some of that was helpful. There is obviously a lot more that could and should be said about your specific situation, which I can’t comment on here. Like I mentioned above, please don’t walk through this alone. You are loved by God and loved by the community of Revelation Church. Please seek out brothers and sisters to walk with if you don’t have them already.
Missed Question From 10.24.21 Q&R
I sometimes get questions sent in to the texting line that for whatever reason don’t arrive until after the Q&R time is over. Yesterday this question came through too late:
As a survivor of sexual assault, I had to use violence to make it stop. Is that biblical or have I sinned?
First off, whoever it was that asked this question, I hope you have a chance to read this. I’m so sorry for that pain that you have experienced. I can’t imagine the burden that you carry. If you have not sought help processing your experience with a pastor or biblical counselor I would highly recommend that you do so. This question is difficult to answer in the abstract and you will likely receive more helpful words from someone that you trust and can share the specifics of your story with.
Here are a few thoughts:
I believe that Jesus’ words in Matthew 5:44 about a Christian’s responsibility to love their enemies means that you don’t kill them. It’s hard to love someone who is no longer alive. Additionally, I think Romans 12:19-20 speak against doing vengeful acts of violence against your enemies. This is a heart posture that says “you are hurting me so I’m going to hurt you back.”
However, one aspect of loving your enemies is preventing them from doing something that will ruin their lives. In light of this, use of force, not with the intent to harm with an attitude of vengeance, but with the intent to prevent your enemy (whom you are called to love) from doing something (or continuing to do something) that will ultimately be harmful to them, is sometimes justified.
I think this option can and should be a last resort because I think the gospel would guide us away from the use of force in general unless absolutely necessary. However, I would make a distinction between this type of use of force and violence (the intent to do harm).
There are several other considerations specific to your situation that I don’t have the information to speak on, but here is a link to a podcast from Bridgetown Church in Portland. In it pastor John Mark Comer interviews Dr. Gerry Breshears, the head of the theology department at Western Seminary, about a variety of topics surrounding the issue of violence, self-defense, abuse and protecting the innocent. I would encourage you to give it a listen. It has been helpful to me in finding clarity about these sorts of questions. If you have further questions, please don’t hesitate to reach out in person.
Zak Adams
Outside Church!
On Sunday, November 7th, instead of meeting as a church family inside our building we will be meeting outside and scattering into the neighborhood to rake our neighbor’s leaves.
Every year the city instructs us to rake our leaves into the street for pickup. For the 3rd year in a row, we will be serving our neighbors by helping them with this task.
Bring a rake for yourself and an extra one if you can. Childcare will be provided for kids 6 and under. We’ll have hot cocoa, coffee and snacks after about an hour of raking.
See you there!
Missed Question From 6.20.21 Q&R
We received a question during our Sunday gathering this last week that came through the text line a little late but I wanted to address it:
Using this example of a domed flat earth description found in the Bible, is it wise to say there are things written in the bible that we have outgrown in our understanding? I think Christ does that very thing in the New Testament. Does this not suggest a God ordained trajectory for the church today as well? What other things written in the Bible, namely the New Testament, are we possibly out growing in our understanding?
Without being able to interact further with this questioner and ask for clarification, here are my thoughts. First off I want to say that there are different kinds of information in the Old Testament. There’s an assumed cosmology (like the expanse that we talked about), there are laws that pertain to the government of the nation of Israel specifically and there are words of prophecy spoken to Israel in their land and in captivity among other things. Just like anything in scripture, it’s difficult to map these things from another place, time and culture directly onto the church. I eat shrimp and pork because while I do believe a kosher diet teaches us something important about who God is, I don’t think that particular law is binding on the church today. I like the passage about how God knows the plans he has for me (Jeremiah 29:11) but I realize that this promise was meant to be fulfilled 70 years from when it was given during the time of Judah’s captivity in Babylon.
When it comes to passages about cosmology, I’m not sure “outgrown” is the best way to describe our position in 2021 looking back at ancient understandings of the cosmos. It might be a fine word, but it feels a little like that chronological snobbery that I talked about in the sermon. Ancient people are asking and answering different questions about the world than we are. They are using the best data they have and God is communicating the message he wants to give them using the data they have. “Outgrown” might be an appropriate way to characterize that - I’m not sure though.
When it comes to the New Testament we have other things to consider. We have to keep the ancient Israelite understanding of the world and also overlay the 1st century Greek understanding of the world in order to make sense of the New Testament. This is in some ways easier (because it’s closer to us) but it can also prove difficult.
Jesus does definitely change things for the people of God. The food laws are a great example of this.
He said to them, “Are you also as lacking in understanding? Don’t you realize that nothing going into a person from the outside can defile him? For it doesn’t go into his heart but into the stomach and is eliminated” (thus he declared all foods clean). And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of people’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immoralities, thefts, murders, adulteries, greed, evil actions, deceit, self-indulgence, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a person.” - Mark 7:18-19
As we progress through the New Testament we see things like the inclusion of non-Jewish people into the people of God without circumcision and a change in understanding of Sabbath observance. With regard to Christians “outgrowing” things, I think a couple passages speak to that:
Is the law therefore contrary to God’s promises? Absolutely not! For if the law had been granted with the ability to give life, then righteousness would certainly be on the basis of the law. But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin’s power, so that the promise might be given on the basis of faith in Jesus Christ to those who believe. Before this faith came, we were confined under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed. The law, then, was our guardian until Christ, so that we could be justified by faith. But since that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for through faith you are all sons of God in Christ Jesus. - Galatians 3:21-25
In Galatians Paul says that the law is our “guardian” (or schoolmaster) until Christ. He talks about the Christian as no longer being a child because in Christ the promise has come:
Now I say that as long as the heir is a child, he differs in no way from a slave, though he is the owner of everything. Instead, he is under guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. In the same way we also, when we were children, were in slavery under the elements of the world. When the time came to completion, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba, Father!” So you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then God has made you an heir. - Galatians 4:1-7
In Galatians there is a false gospel going around that in order to be a Christian you have to keep the Jewish law and Paul has a very strong stance against that. So in that sense there are a lot of things about the practice of following Yahweh that was given to the Jewish people that have been fulfilled in Christ and we are no longer subject to.
You ask specifically though about what things in the New Testament we are outgrowing today. This is a more challenging question because some would argue that the early church “outgrowing” the Old covenant is a precedence for the modern church to “outgrow” some of the teachings of the early church.
There is possibly a similar case to the Old Testament’s expanse in the New Testament’s use of the word “heart.” The idea that the heart is the seat of the will and emotions was a widespread belief in the ancient world. The brain was not seen as very useful. We know now that the brain is the biological epicenter of our consciousness. The comparison is a little off though because we still frequently talk about the heart in ways that the New Testament does (most likely because of the influence of the New Testament on western culture).
Things get a little more difficult when we talk about “growing out” of some of the moral and ethical mandates in the New Testament. It is popular to point to the discontinuities between the Old and New Testaments as a rationale for abandoning some of the more unpopular teachings of Jesus and the Apostles because we have, in 2021, “outgrown” 1st century ideas about marriage, sexuality, gender and the like. The problem with this sort of reasoning is that we are given no authoritative reason for doing this. It’s not Jesus changing the way we interact with God, it’s us deciding as a culture that Jesus’ and Paul’s ideas don’t apply anymore. It’s an interesting way to get out of taking the commands of the New Testament seriously, but it is hard to make a solid case for why our current societal standards should be held in a higher position than that of the church that Jesus founded and that two thousand years later we have been adopted into.
One of the hard things about studying the Bible is that there are rarely easy answers. Each text has to be understood in the context that it was written in and with the purposes of the author in mind. Sometimes that seems simple and other times we struggle to get it right. As I continue to wrestle with this ancient library of books and let it put its weight on my life I find myself leaning more heavily on the things that seem strange and difficult to live out and less on how my culture tries to get me to understand and follow the scripture.
Missed Question From 6.13.21 Q&R
Something glitched in our text messaging service this week and there was a question that came in after the Q&R time was over. It was a good question, I want to do my best at addressing it .
I understand there’s a new heart desire for wanting better when saved. But if we all continuously struggle with sin, can we really call ourselves a new creation?
I think this is a great question with an easy answer and a more complicated answer. The easy answer is that since the Bible calls us new creations in Christ, we should be able to do that as well.
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, and see, the new has come! (2 Corinthians 5:17)
I think the more complicated answer is helpful though. There is a real sense of tension in this question that, if we’re honest, I think we all feel. I believe that I have been saved by Jesus but so often I find myself living in patterns of thought and action that look more like the life I have been saved from than the life that I want to be saved for. There are probably a lot of ways to think about that, but Paul has some thoughts that are helpful in the context of the passage in 2 Corinthians.
Therefore, since we have this ministry because we were shown mercy, we do not give up. Instead, we have renounced secret and shameful things, not acting deceitfully or distorting the word of God, but commending ourselves before God to everyone’s conscience by an open display of the truth. But if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In their case, the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we are not proclaiming ourselves but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’s sake. For God who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of God’s glory in the face of Jesus Christ. (2 Corinthians 4:1-6)
Paul is talking about his role as someone called to share the good news about Jesus with others. He ends this passage with a clear reference to Genesis 1 and likens the light that shines in the creation to the light of the knowledge of who Jesus is. Paul links the creation event in Genesis with something that goes on in our hearts when we begin to trust in Christ.
Now we have this treasure in clay jars, so that this extraordinary power may be from God and not from us. We are afflicted in every way but not crushed; we are perplexed but not in despair; we are persecuted but not abandoned; we are struck down but not destroyed. We always carry the death of Jesus in our body, so that the life of Jesus may also be displayed in our body. For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus’s sake, so that Jesus’s life may also be displayed in our mortal flesh. So then, death is at work in us, but life in you. And since we have the same spirit of faith in keeping with what is written, I believed, therefore I spoke, we also believe, and therefore speak. For we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you. Indeed, everything is for your benefit so that, as grace extends through more and more people, it may cause thanksgiving to increase to the glory of God.
Therefore we do not give up. Even though our outer person is being destroyed, our inner person is being renewed day by day. For our momentary light affliction is producing for us an absolutely incomparable eternal weight of glory. So we do not focus on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. (2 Corinthians 4:7-18)
Paul continues through the end of chapter 4 talking about how hard his ministry is but how because he has been rescued by God he has to get this message out. It is too precious to keep to himself and even though his life is hard right now he is looking forward to a forever kind of life that is so much better.
For we know that if our earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal dwelling in the heavens, not made with hands. Indeed, we groan in this tent, desiring to put on our heavenly dwelling, since, when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. Indeed, we groan while we are in this tent, burdened as we are, because we do not want to be unclothed but clothed, so that mortality may be swallowed up by life. Now the one who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave us the Spirit as a down payment. (2 Corinthians 5:1-5)
Paul’s train of thought continues in chapter 5. He begins talking about our physical bodies suffering and wearing out and how we are looking forward to new, eternal bodies. God is the one that is preparing us for these new creation bodies and he has given us the Holy Spirit living inside of us now, as a down payment.
The down payment language is helpful. A down payment on a house or a car gets you the house or the car. You still owe on it, so it’s not technically all yours yet. You haven’t completely come into the ownership of the thing, but you are on your way to it. In Paul’s case it’s a bit of the reverse. God has given us a down payment and it’s almost like he’s the one paying the mortgage to us, slowly forming us into these new creations that he has promised that we will fully be someday.
So we are always confident and know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. In fact, we are confident, and we would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. Therefore, whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to be pleasing to him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each may be repaid for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil. (2 Corinthians 5:6-10)
Whenever I pay my mortgage (which I just got this year) I think about how much money I owe and how little it seems like I am paying it down with each payment. I know however that if I make my payments, over the course of 30 years, in the end I will fully own my house. In a similar way, God is “making payments” into our new creation state. It’s what the Bible calls sanctification. Even though as each day goes by I often feel like I am stuck in the same patterns of sin that I have often struggled with, I have been promised this new creation by God and I can trust, by faith like Paul says, that when my time is up, I will have been fully made new.
Paul recognizes that we don’t always walk in that new creation way. We don’t act like we own the house so to speak, and we will be held accountable for that. We will not be punished as though God hasn’t bought us by the blood of Christ, but we will give an answer for what we do in this life. So Paul can say “we make it our aim to be pleasing to him.” That’s the goal, we don’t always hit it as the questioner points out, but that should be a mark of the trajectory that our life is on: to please Christ.
Therefore, since we know the fear of the Lord, we try to persuade people. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your consciences. We are not commending ourselves to you again, but giving you an opportunity to be proud of us, so that you may have a reply for those who take pride in outward appearance rather than in the heart. For if we are out of our mind, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. For the love of Christ compels us, since we have reached this conclusion, that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all so that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for the one who died for them and was raised.
From now on, then, we do not know anyone from a worldly perspective. Even if we have known Christ from a worldly perspective, yet now we no longer know him in this way. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, and see, the new has come! Everything is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and has given us the ministry of reconciliation. That is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and he has committed the message of reconciliation to us.
Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, since God is making his appeal through us. We plead on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God.” He made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (2 Corinthians 5:11-21)
Paul ends the chapter with more reasons why he tells everyone he can the good news about Jesus. All of creation is being made new, “reconciled” is the word that he uses here, and all people can get in on it by putting their trust in Jesus. Jesus became sin, was fully absorbed into the tehom from Genesis 1:2 so to speak, so that we, who are in our natural state trending toward disorder and chaos, can be made the “righteousness of God” which is Paul’s way of saying new, holy, set apart, or as God frequently says in the creation story in Genesis, “good.”
I know that was a lot, but I hope that helps answer the question. When the Bible talks about us as God’s people, it often sees us not as we see ourselves now, but as God sees us, completely new in the future. Hopefully that helps us to be patient with ourselves as we struggle with sin, but also to be kind and patient with others that are on similar journeys as well.
June 26th Prayer Walk
Prayer walking is a habit that Revelation Church has cultivated since the our founding. On June 26th we will be meeting at the church building at 10am, dividing into small groups, and walking through the neighborhood. Some frequently asked questions:
What do you do on a prayer walk?
Prayer walking is about locational awareness. As your group walks around the neighborhood, keep your eyes open and listen for the Spirit of God to give bring things to your mind to pray for that pertain to the community that you are walking through.
Do I have to talk to strangers?
While you are welcome to ask people that you may meet along the way if you can pray for them, this is not required. Most of the prayer walk with be confined to prayer and conversation with the group of people you are walking with.
How long will it take?
Each route is planned at about one mile in length and is intended to be prayed for in about an hour. We will gather at the end to debrief our experiences before we end our time together.
Are kids welcome?
Yes! Please bring your children and use the process to teach them about prayer.